What I Wish I Knew About University - Baroness Smith Responds
Thank you for all of your responses!
it wasn’t possible for the Minister to answer all 56 questions, however the Minister has attempted to answer a representative selection in the broadest way possible.
Question
Children who are care experienced vs care leavers are not treated equally by universities in
England, Wales and NI vs Scotland. This applies to all adopted children, children who were
in foster care, kinship care etc. At present universities (other than in Scotland) can each set
their own rules ie contextual applies if you also get FSM, or were only adopted after starting
school. There appears to be no basis in "fact" about the effect of care on how a university
approaches this subject (for reference see a study https://www.clsconsulting.org/new-page
In contrast Scotland has a clear blanket statement that care experienced applies to anyone
who has spent anytime in care. All universities have to follow the SAME definitions and
SAME approach. The Scottish approach is consistent and clear. It also is based on clear
proven evidence that anytime in care can affect a child and that being abandoned/adopted
etc affects a child throughout their life - ie there is on going issues especially and often in the
teenage years - where the fact they may have "left care" doesn't mean "care" has left them.
The Scottish universities also then guarantee an offer if you have the core required grades
needed. Given the percentages of care experienced and care leavers (those in the care
system at age 16) going to university are truly pitifully small, making the definition and
approach consistent across all 4 nations would be a hugely positive move welcomed by
anyone involved in this sector.
For reference I am an adoptive parent and while my youngest child will tick the box this
autumn when she applies that she has been in care, two of the four English universities she
plans to apply to will not take this into consideration as she was adopted before starting
school and/or we paid for private school. It's a double penalty when you try to do the best for
a kid with a poor start in life.
Response
This Government wants to build a Britain where background is no barrier to opportunity. That
is why we want to make sure everyone who gets the grades and wants to go to university,
has the opportunity to do so. No one should be left behind – including children who have
been in care.
In England, eligible care leavers who choose to attend university or higher education (HE)
are entitled to receive statutory support - this could include housing support and a bursary of
£2,000 from their local authority (if entering before the age of 25). Care leavers may also
be entitled to maximum student loan entitlements.
You are right that the HE sector is autonomous and providers set their own admissions
criteria, however, all providers registered with the Office for Students (that intend to charge
higher level tuition fees) must have an Access and Participation Plan which set out how they
will improve equality of opportunity for underrepresented groups. This includes ‘care
experienced’ as a characteristic that higher education providers must consider. As such,
institutions provide a range of support directly to their prospective and current care
experienced students which could include things like bursaries and other contextual support
packages to help with accessing higher education, completing their studies and achieving
their potential.
Question
I continually hear politicians speaking about apprenticeship degrees being readily available
as an alternative to University. in reality this is not the case. There are very few
apprenticeship degrees available against the number of applicants. One place can often
attract hundreds of applications. what plans do the government have to help and support
business to increase apprenticeships.
Response
Our vision is to create a golden age of lifelong learning, and make sure that people have the
knowledge and skills they need to get on in life. Degree apprenticeships are a brilliant way of
doing that, as they combine real jobs with academic learning. With 170 degree-level
apprenticeships available in a range of industries, apprentices can put their skills into
practice while gaining valuable industry experience and achieve a degree without incurring
tuition fees.
Because degree apprentices are employed, the number of opportunities depends on
businesses with suitable vacancies. Demand, and therefore competition, for degree
apprenticeships is high as they are recognised as an attractive option. We’re
encouraging degree apprenticeship providers to expand their degree apprenticeship offers,
supported by £40 million funding allocated over two years, so more people can access this
opportunity.
Question
I would like to understand why the government do not offer this grant to those studying
medicine when these students also have placement expenses.
We are a middle income family and struggle to support our daughter through medical school
despite both parents having good jobs.
Because of our jobs she receives the minimum maintenance loan, has no time to work
during term time so is reliant on us and her summer job to support her during the academic
year. This support is a struggle for us all.
She is going into third year now where she will have 7 weeks of teaching and the rest of the
year on various placements yet no government support to help her.
It makes no sense to me why this fund is available for the Allied Health courses and not
medicine. It is something I feel the government really need to look at considering the great
need for more doctors and the lack of government support to help students over the 5 year
course.
Response
Medicine is a fantastic and rewarding career, and I am so pleased your daughter has chosen
to pursue it. We know that the NHS has been facing chronic workforce shortages for years.
This government will tackle these issues head on so we can get the NHS back on its feet
and ensure it has the staff it needs to be there for all of us when we need it. The
Government is committed to financially supporting medical students in England throughout
their studies, as a vital part of our future NHS workforce.
I am truly sorry to hear about the burden this is placing on your family. We also know that
attending university can put financial pressure on students and families. As I’m sure you’re
aware, during the first four years of an undergraduate course, students can access student
loans through Student Finance England. Some students are then eligible to access the NHS
Bursary starting from their fifth year of an undergraduate course or their second year of a
graduate-entry course. The bursary does not need to be repaid and includes payment for
tuition fees as well as additional grants and allowances for those who qualify, including
support for travel and accommodation expenses. Medical students also can receive support
for travel and accommodation expenses which arise as a result of placements via the
Education and Training Tariff. This is arranged via medical schools and placement providers
– is this something your daughter has looked in to?
Question
Should results not all come out on the same day for all students? It doesn’t seem fair that
students who get their results before 15 August are able to prepare for clearing and indicate
their interest in courses a couple of weeks earlier than those doing A-levels?
Response
In my new role as Skills Minister, I have already had many briefings on how this
complex system works over recent weeks! I know it is essential that university
admissions are fair and prioritise the interests of students.
Every year UCAS help over half a million people secure their HE place. This is about
much more than students completing their A-levels and taking the next step into
higher education, although they are clearly the lion’s share of applicants. Therefore,
admission processes need to be flexible enough to meet the needs of all applicants
using it - whether it is 18-year-olds from the UK, international students or mature
students, students returning to study, or those with technical qualifications - with
many having already holding their qualifications.
The volume of young students that receive their results before A level and T level
results day is relatively small – for example, UK International Baccalaureate awards
make up around 4,500 students. This compares to over 300,000 UK 18-year-olds,
across 30,000 courses receiving A levels.
So, is this fair?
Where students who get early results have applied to university and their grades
meet the terms of their offer, they’ll likely be accepted for their course. For those that
miss their grades, many institutions will wait to see A levels and T level results
before making Clearing decisions. So, while some students may have a bit of a head
start on looking around what may be available in Clearing, many universities will not
confirm their places until A Level and T Level students have also got their results.
I expect the majority of students, applying to university this year will secure their first
choice place. For those that don’t, or those who decide to re-evaluate their options
on results day, I expect to see lots of high-quality quality courses in Clearing and am
confident that there will be a place for all applicants who want one
.…………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Thank you for all of your responses!
it wasn’t possible for the Minister to answer all 56 questions, however the Minister has attempted to answer a representative selection in the broadest way possible.
Question
Children who are care experienced vs care leavers are not treated equally by universities in
England, Wales and NI vs Scotland. This applies to all adopted children, children who were
in foster care, kinship care etc. At present universities (other than in Scotland) can each set
their own rules ie contextual applies if you also get FSM, or were only adopted after starting
school. There appears to be no basis in "fact" about the effect of care on how a university
approaches this subject (for reference see a study https://www.clsconsulting.org/new-page
In contrast Scotland has a clear blanket statement that care experienced applies to anyone
who has spent anytime in care. All universities have to follow the SAME definitions and
SAME approach. The Scottish approach is consistent and clear. It also is based on clear
proven evidence that anytime in care can affect a child and that being abandoned/adopted
etc affects a child throughout their life - ie there is on going issues especially and often in the
teenage years - where the fact they may have "left care" doesn't mean "care" has left them.
The Scottish universities also then guarantee an offer if you have the core required grades
needed. Given the percentages of care experienced and care leavers (those in the care
system at age 16) going to university are truly pitifully small, making the definition and
approach consistent across all 4 nations would be a hugely positive move welcomed by
anyone involved in this sector.
For reference I am an adoptive parent and while my youngest child will tick the box this
autumn when she applies that she has been in care, two of the four English universities she
plans to apply to will not take this into consideration as she was adopted before starting
school and/or we paid for private school. It's a double penalty when you try to do the best for
a kid with a poor start in life.
Response
This Government wants to build a Britain where background is no barrier to opportunity. That
is why we want to make sure everyone who gets the grades and wants to go to university,
has the opportunity to do so. No one should be left behind – including children who have
been in care.
In England, eligible care leavers who choose to attend university or higher education (HE)
are entitled to receive statutory support - this could include housing support and a bursary of
£2,000 from their local authority (if entering before the age of 25). Care leavers may also
be entitled to maximum student loan entitlements.
You are right that the HE sector is autonomous and providers set their own admissions
criteria, however, all providers registered with the Office for Students (that intend to charge
higher level tuition fees) must have an Access and Participation Plan which set out how they
will improve equality of opportunity for underrepresented groups. This includes ‘care
experienced’ as a characteristic that higher education providers must consider. As such,
institutions provide a range of support directly to their prospective and current care
experienced students which could include things like bursaries and other contextual support
packages to help with accessing higher education, completing their studies and achieving
their potential.
Question
I continually hear politicians speaking about apprenticeship degrees being readily available
as an alternative to University. in reality this is not the case. There are very few
apprenticeship degrees available against the number of applicants. One place can often
attract hundreds of applications. what plans do the government have to help and support
business to increase apprenticeships.
Response
Our vision is to create a golden age of lifelong learning, and make sure that people have the
knowledge and skills they need to get on in life. Degree apprenticeships are a brilliant way of
doing that, as they combine real jobs with academic learning. With 170 degree-level
apprenticeships available in a range of industries, apprentices can put their skills into
practice while gaining valuable industry experience and achieve a degree without incurring
tuition fees.
Because degree apprentices are employed, the number of opportunities depends on
businesses with suitable vacancies. Demand, and therefore competition, for degree
apprenticeships is high as they are recognised as an attractive option. We’re
encouraging degree apprenticeship providers to expand their degree apprenticeship offers,
supported by £40 million funding allocated over two years, so more people can access this
opportunity.
Question
I would like to understand why the government do not offer this grant to those studying
medicine when these students also have placement expenses.
We are a middle income family and struggle to support our daughter through medical school
despite both parents having good jobs.
Because of our jobs she receives the minimum maintenance loan, has no time to work
during term time so is reliant on us and her summer job to support her during the academic
year. This support is a struggle for us all.
She is going into third year now where she will have 7 weeks of teaching and the rest of the
year on various placements yet no government support to help her.
It makes no sense to me why this fund is available for the Allied Health courses and not
medicine. It is something I feel the government really need to look at considering the great
need for more doctors and the lack of government support to help students over the 5 year
course.
Response
Medicine is a fantastic and rewarding career, and I am so pleased your daughter has chosen
to pursue it. We know that the NHS has been facing chronic workforce shortages for years.
This government will tackle these issues head on so we can get the NHS back on its feet
and ensure it has the staff it needs to be there for all of us when we need it. The
Government is committed to financially supporting medical students in England throughout
their studies, as a vital part of our future NHS workforce.
I am truly sorry to hear about the burden this is placing on your family. We also know that
attending university can put financial pressure on students and families. As I’m sure you’re
aware, during the first four years of an undergraduate course, students can access student
loans through Student Finance England. Some students are then eligible to access the NHS
Bursary starting from their fifth year of an undergraduate course or their second year of a
graduate-entry course. The bursary does not need to be repaid and includes payment for
tuition fees as well as additional grants and allowances for those who qualify, including
support for travel and accommodation expenses. Medical students also can receive support
for travel and accommodation expenses which arise as a result of placements via the
Education and Training Tariff. This is arranged via medical schools and placement providers
– is this something your daughter has looked in to?
Question
Should results not all come out on the same day for all students? It doesn’t seem fair that
students who get their results before 15 August are able to prepare for clearing and indicate
their interest in courses a couple of weeks earlier than those doing A-levels?
Response
In my new role as Skills Minister, I have already had many briefings on how this
complex system works over recent weeks! I know it is essential that university
admissions are fair and prioritise the interests of students.
Every year UCAS help over half a million people secure their HE place. This is about
much more than students completing their A-levels and taking the next step into
higher education, although they are clearly the lion’s share of applicants. Therefore,
admission processes need to be flexible enough to meet the needs of all applicants
using it - whether it is 18-year-olds from the UK, international students or mature
students, students returning to study, or those with technical qualifications - with
many having already holding their qualifications.
The volume of young students that receive their results before A level and T level
results day is relatively small – for example, UK International Baccalaureate awards
make up around 4,500 students. This compares to over 300,000 UK 18-year-olds,
across 30,000 courses receiving A levels.
So, is this fair?
Where students who get early results have applied to university and their grades
meet the terms of their offer, they’ll likely be accepted for their course. For those that
miss their grades, many institutions will wait to see A levels and T level results
before making Clearing decisions. So, while some students may have a bit of a head
start on looking around what may be available in Clearing, many universities will not
confirm their places until A Level and T Level students have also got their results.
I expect the majority of students, applying to university this year will secure their first
choice place. For those that don’t, or those who decide to re-evaluate their options
on results day, I expect to see lots of high-quality quality courses in Clearing and am
confident that there will be a place for all applicants who want one
.…………………………………………………………………………………………………………
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